DP 1600 Rebuild

[ONEBADBUG]

This is why I used to always be on the lookout for core engines. Though most of them die a violent death similar to yours, Bucky, some expire from other things. Then you can use 2 to make 1. You might think about tearing down another one of your engines to get the stuff to do your first lowbuck. You will learn a lot on the first one, knowledge you can use for your high quality build.

I had a van, named "Baby" that had the black goo you talked about. I hate to tell you, but I tried every chemical I could find to get rid of it, finally got a different tank.

[Bucky]

What I'd really like to do is pull the engine out of one of my things, the none stock one, engine code AE and use that case and crank, of course if their good. But thats my only running car right now and I drive kids to and from school and goto work everyday in it. I have found a good case $75 bucks, still needs to be machined. and a crank I think $50 bucks, needs machining. It's my plan to get them to the machine shop this week. I have found a good machine shop in town, I'll let everyone know the name later(don't have it handy, and would forget my head if it wasn't attached). There are a couple of good machinists in town, I'm just trying to get a good price and good work. I keep spending money on the thing, which slows down the engine rebuild. I have a new Exhuast coming form Demark this week, that really set me back. Oh I shouldn't forget the front seat rebuild kits I orderd too. You can see what I Mean.

[Bucky]

O.K. I bought the case. Gordy (I think he use to have a shop called "The buggy Shop", or something like that.) is doing the machine line bore and thrust cut. I also got a crank already machined .

Case $75.00
machining $50.00
Machined Crank $57.00+core

Not bad so far.

[Bucky]

I'm still doing the rebuild. Waiting for Gordy to do machining. And these things take time and money and I'm short on both so hang in there.

[Bucky]

O.K. I know this is taking for ever, but I have all the parts and Im ready to start, almost. I've been checking things out and checking on things and being sure I've got all my shit together.

1. My old cam has a +3 on it, the pitch radius. I bought a new brazilian cam(I don't want to hear how low quality brazilian shit is, I know) which has no markings at all. I am planning on checking backlash, but should I even go that far? If Im using the same gear on the crank, shouldn't I try to use a +3 cam gear or is the new markless cam going to be ok.

2. This one's for Troy. Is that pumpfilter for a dished cam, 24-26mm pump?

[Troy Hobbs]

Will have to call CB with the numbers and ask , I'll look at the box and see if/what it says on the label . TROY

[Bucky]

hey troy, what about the cam, any idea?

BTW I think you can measure how deep the oil pump is. The dished cams use a 24-26mm long or deep pump.

[ONEBADBUG]

If you guys are talking about a CB pump, there is no difference between 3 or 4 bolt except how far the shaft goes down towards the cam. You can press it in or out to make it right.
To do the cam gear right, you should take the old gear off the old cam, spot face it, and bolt it to the new cam. I can also tell you how to check the backlash, but don't want to write that much, give me a call.
Steve

[Troy Hobbs]

Sorry for delayed answer , pump is a 26mm gear , and like Steve said on the shaft and the cam gear . TROY

[Bucky]

O.K. the CB pump should fit the dished cam. So both cams have the gear riveted to the shaft. The old one is a 3 bolt(rivet) flat cam, the new cam is a four bolt(rivet) dished cam. I read how to check for backlash and understand why it needs to be checked, I was wondering if I should just start with a +3 gear since thats what the old cam is and, I'm guessing thats what the timing gear on the crank is set up for. However I have never checked for backlash before and want to get it right, so I will diffently give you a call steve, whens a good time?

I built the crank up this weekend. I reused the old gears, spacer and lock ring. I used a propane torch to heat up the gears and quickly slid each one on. Of coures I slid the #3 main bearing on first using assembly lube and was sure to get the dowel hole oriented towards the flywheel end of the crank.

I also put on all the rods with the bearing tangs butting each other on the bottom and the tab facing upward. I bought a .010 under crank, (I think I put that down right), My og crank had never been machined, so new machined crank is based on what the core will have to be machined too.

I then checked out the case alittle better. The head studs aren't in the new(used) case, so I was going to use my old ones. The holes for the studs are different, Like some set up for 8mm studs and others for 10mm studs one hole has a case saver in it. My plan is to put case savers in all the holes. I was going to use 8mm studs with OD12X1.5-ID8X1.25 threaded inserts(case savers). If this is a bad plan, please let me know what would be better.

Thats as far as I've gotten. I have bought everthing I think I'll be need to finish. I picked up alot of new parts and will do a price list near the end of the rebuild so I can include any of those unforseen expenditures, like case savers, which I order form Aircooled.net for $14.00 bucks for the whole set.

Thanks so much for all the help you guys, especially Troy and Steve for all the input. I've posted a couple question on the engine forum at thesamba.com, but seem to get no reply. I think the cam gear pitch and case savers are beyond most of the people that plug in there. If they can't just buy it they don't know.

[Bucky]

I think I have collected all the parts I will be needed for the complete rebuild.
Here's the list.

good used case (AE) 75.00
Line bore on case 50.00
Machined Crank 51.00
Lifters 51.00
Cam 51.00
Piston/cylinder set 112.00
reconditioned rods 57.00
main bearings 25.00
cam bearings 13.00
rod bearings 13.00
gasket set 13.00
new heads 160.00
Total 671.00

Of course there were other things like sealents slovents and lubircants.
Maybe 30.00

I also decided to add a few extras. the case was set up for 10mm cylinder studs, a couple of which had been drilled and taped, added case savers for 8mm studs. The mix of 8mm and 10mm studs bothered me so I drilled and taped the rest, added case savers for 8mm studs so all the studs would be the same. I should have had a machinest do this on a mill, but I didn't resulting in one slightly crocked stud. I hope this dosen't cause stress to the case.
I have a few good oil pumps around, but really want to try a pump with a screw on filter. Im hoping this will add a little more life to the engine and help cool the oil a bit, we'll see.
The last thing I decide on was a VDO oil temp gage.

case savers and new studs 30.00
CB preformance oil pump/filter 40.00 (still need to get from Troy)
VDO gage, sender, t fitting 60.00

total with extras 831.00

I gathered all the parts from various sources, including a local parts store. I checked out some other sources and see now I could proably have cut this total by at least $200.00 if i had shopped around a little more and bought everything at one time to get discounts and free shipping. I also believe this rebuild required more new parts than most, do to the age and extreme wear on the this engine. The original rebuilder, also had something to do with this. All in all i'm happy with everything so far.

I have slowly been doing the work. When I come to a problem I stop, no short cuts. I get the info or parts I need to over come the problem and continue. I really want this to be a good rebuild, so I'll take my time and get things right.

1. I've already covered the crank build. (last post)
2. I drilled and taped by hand the cylinder stud holes and inserted case savers. I went with an outside diameter of 12mm X 1.5 thread size. 14mm were avalible, but I thought that would bring the case savers too close to the cylinder bore and weaken the case where the studs go.? As I said I went with 8mm studs. I was sure to clean all the metal shavings off and out of the case.
3. I checked the timing/cam gear backlash after talking with Steve and getting it perfectly clear how to do it and why. It seems prefect.
4. Installed distributor gear and shimed it to .036 of end play. needs to be between .020-.050
5. Set distributor for #1 TDC and installed main bearings.
6. The book doesn't cover crank installation very well, but I got thruogh it with no problems. Just remember to put on the oil slinger. I installed the crank with the two timing marks pointing straight up, meaning the #1 rod was all the way out.
7. Slid the lifters into place.
8. I rotated the crank to a good position to install the cam and easily aligned the crank timing marks with the cam timing mark. then rotated both and double checked the timing marks, distributor position and backlash.

Thats as far as I got. I'm holding off on going further until I pick up the oilpump and set the drive shaft on the pump to fit the slot in the cam gear while the case is open. Then Steve offered to spot weld the shaft so there's no concern of it moving (sliding inward). once thats done I'll mate the case halves and continue.

Sorry I get so long winded.
Hey Mark, sorry I haven't called you, but I've only had short amounts of actually build time do to set backs and time restraints. I'm going to start the whole process over as soon as I'm done with this one. It'll be a AM case for one of my Things. I was thinking we should make it a work shop for anyone who wanted to learn to rebuild their engine.

[Bucky]

Here it is, last post on the actual rebuilding process.
I got the inner works of the case done as the previous post covers. I was waiting to pick up the oil pump to mate the case halves. When I got the pump I did a test install to adjust the drive gear. No adjustment needed. I compared it to the old pump, the drive gear and shaft were exactly the same in length. That was too easy.
I installed the pump and mated the case, installed hardware and torqued to specifications.
Installed rear pull of course not forgetting rear tin first and flywheel, torqued. I checked endplay and got it to .004 in. reinstalled flywheel and front main seal.
piston and cylinders went on next with no problems.
Installed heads and torqued. I had the push rod tubes ready to go, cleaned up and streched out a bit. the tubes and heads also went without a hitch.
All the other stuff went on at that point. fuel pump, genny stand and oil cooler.
I started putting on the tin and somewhere in that process installed the intake and carb. on went the genny with the fan housing.
Everything went great until it came time to install the muffler. My stock bus muffler has a heatriser tube on the drivers side which interfers with the oil filter (Empi fullflow filter/pump). After going through my options, Like using a header I have, but didn't want to use because I'll loose much of the little bit of heat for my feet, I realized that the muffler for my thing had the tube on the passanger side, leaving room for the pump/filter. I decided to go with the thing muffler so I could still have pleanty of heat. I also have the fancy tail pipes that are suppose to shoot out thru two holes in the things rear bumper. I put those on oppisite and backwards so they hang down and stick out below the vans bumper. I'm hoping to modify my stock van muffler so it will work and I can use the thing muffler on the thing.
I got the new engine in the van and all hooked up. It fired right up and was timed for top dead center. after some adjusting i decided to set the time slightly retarded(I think) after top dead center, It just wasn't running right. Over the next two days I dialed in the carb and timing. I also got a air preheat tube installed for the cooled wearther.
So far it seems tobe running great. Ive got about 80 miles on it.

Thanks again Troy and Steve for all the info, parts and input.
Can't wait to start my next rebuild, AM case for the Thing.
see ya at the meeing tonight.