DP 1600 Rebuild

[Bucky]

Hey VW people, I've decided to rebuild the DP1600 out of my 67 Bus. Its the first full rebuild I've ever done so I will need all the help I can get. I have the engine out and have already started tearing it down. It's struned about my garage with the rest of my vw parts in no particaular order. So I need to get on it right away before I forget whats what. I was thinking about taking the case, for line bore, and crank and cam to the guy in Coeur D'alene for machining. I think its called European Machine. Has anyone ever had work done there? Are they good at what they do? By the way I'm going to buy new rods, cylinders and pistons, 87mm (1641cc?) and buy new heads. Is there anything else that needs to go to the machine shop that I may be forgetting? Or is there anything else I should do before I start worrying about machining. Any help or suggestions would be greatly apperciated.

[ONEBADBUG]

Where to start? .............
Jason @ European can line bore your block, as far as the crank and cam are concerned, you just buy a new cam and lifters. I get mine from CB Performance, Engle and Scat make good ones too. You could get a stock Brazilian cam from Lighthouse. You may be able to use your old crank, is it damaged? If not measure it.
There are a lot of things to check on the block, if it's OK, I think Jason can hot tank it for you.
The first thing you need to do is determine what parts you can use again, and then how much $ you want to spend, that will dictate what size you are going to make, etc.
Steve

[Bucky]

Hey Steve, Will Jason check the case when I take it to him? Or is there any one in town (spokane), that you recommend, that does the machine work? I was going to get the 87mm piston and cylinder kits, Jason said it's not a good idea to go that size on a bus(do to the thinner cylinder wall), either go bigger with bigger heads and bigger carb system or just go with 85.5mm kits? I'll go with buying the cam and lifters. I measure the crank to see if It can be machined again? Like I said I've never rebuilt an engine before. I do have a vw engine rebuild book on its way. Just one step at a time. Thanks so much for your reply! Bucky

[ONEBADBUG]

He's right, 87's are a bad deal for a bus. But to step up to 90.5 is a big jump in $ and work. It all comes down to budget.
Go to Samba.com forums and read up, and any other info sources you have.
I have all the special tools, and can check things for you.
Come out to the autocross tomorrow and find me. (Blue dune buggy).
I can help you come up with a plan.
Go to autosportsnorthwest.org to find out about the autocross, it will be at Spokane Community College, corner of Mission and Greene.
Steve

[Bucky]

Hey steve, I couldn't make it to the autocross on sunday. I really wanted to, but had Plans I couldn't blow off. I've read the better part of "How to rebuild your VW air-cooled engine" and will read up at Samba.com as well. I'm holding off on splitting the case until I understand what I need to look for and what tolerences to check. Other than looking for damage and metal wear, is the rod side clearance the main thing to check for? Should I start tearing down the crank or just have the machine shop (or a more Knowledgeable VW person), do this, do to the parts that must be pressed off. Thanks for the invite to the autocross and the help. Bucky

[Bucky]

I went and checked out thesamba.com for info on engine rebuilding. I found some info, but it takes searching which equals much time. I did find a good idea, but it would take just the right person to do, not me. An engine rebuild class. It looked very informal. If someone was good at rebuilding and had the time, resources and shop space to do such a thing I would surely pay money to be there. The guy I saw said he knew how, but wasn't the best and was hoping for other builders to be there. If this Idea strikes anyone as good and something they want to try please email me and I will certainly do what I can to help. I would like to think that hundreds of people would love to learn more about their aircooled VW engines, if nothing else. I can print and distibute flyers and whatever else it would take. I just could never at this point rebuild an engine. Maybe it's something the club could take on as a winter project. VW aircooled engines 101. Just another idea. Bucky

[Bucky]

O.K. the case is split. I found paper thin metal, it looked like brass, when i removed the oil strainer, and a lot more when I split the case. I knew the engine had problems hence the rebuild. After close examination of things I conclude it came from the The #3 rod bearing. (there may still be hope. As soon as the engine started running wrong I turned it off and had it towed.) #3 doesn't move as nicely as the others. Other than that I don't see alot of wear or signs of heat. I haven't pulled the rods off the crank yet. I was thinking of leaving this for the machineshop, so they could see what's going on better. I did however check the connecting rod side clearance. #1 .012, #2 .010, #3 .010, #4 .008. I'm refering to the cylinder #s. Are these numbers important considering the #3 bearing damage? should I remove the rods to confirm the #3 bearing damage? What else should I be looking for? What else should I Check, like what size bearings are in there, anything like that?

[Bucky]

Is anybody out there?

[ONEBADBUG]

[Bucky]

I have no idea if anybody else is reading this thread(besides myself and Steve), but I'll go on anyway. As I already mentioned, I have split the case and found some intresting things. I took Steve up on his offer to help, boxed up all the important parts loaded up the "Thing" and hit the highway out to Steves house. It was the first time I took the Thing on I-90, Shooting along at 60+ is quite a thrill in the old beast. I did make it. Steve was worth gold. He examined my many parts, or gave it an autopsy as he refers to it. As he went he showed, and explained to me the things to look for. Books mention all this stuff, but so what, an experianced person pointing out these things is much more real and there's no second guessing what the book meant. We concluded(really Steve did) that the crank could be alot worse, usable, but marginal. So I'll get a new one. The case: usable, but marginal. I'll get a new one. Rods: one bad one, which always need to be rebuilt anyway. In other words get new ones. Of course the cam and lifters were quit worn, new cam, new lifters. The pistons and cylinders looked great, so I'll get new ones, and save these for a cheap rebuild oneday in the future. We talked of many things, where to get parts, who does the best machine work, what kind of cams, what kind of oil pumps, the importance of the engine tin and correct air flow, oil pressure; temp and gauges to keep track of these things, head temp and a gauge for that. He covered so much that I can't list it all let alone remember. I'll cover these asspects as we go through reassemably. I'm sure I'll visit Steve again, only if I'm invited, of course. So my next step is to get the dough together to start buying the several hundreds of dollars worth of parts I need. Lets do it right.

My hat goes off to Steve, He loves/hates VW's and to offer help to a complete stanger and let that stranger come to his home and into his shop, on top of giving up preious time, says alot about a guy. Thanks abunch Steve I owe you a favor.

Just a side note: When I reached Steve's house the Thing was having a problem, it wouldn't idle. As I left it started hard and at first wouldn't idle. I took Trent home instead of I90 and on the way home it ran fine, no stalling. once home it wouldn't idle. So monday morning I had a session with it. (when I first bought the Thing I had to cram a wire down the fuel line and dig thick black goo out, it took a couple hours). With the black goo in the back of my mind I started messing with the carb, checked the timing and more carb messing. None of it worked. Tried spare carbs, tried spare fuel pumps. still no. I know its what I should have started with but I finally got to sticking the wire down the fuel tube. Of course It was repacked with black goo, only in one spot and not nearly as bad as before. I had already cleaned the tank some time ago, so I figure I must have missed some goo that just took awhile to reclog the line. While I was at it I replaced all the braded rubber fuel and vacum lines with new braded lines. It seemed like the worst clogges were in the rubber part of the system. I guess it's all part of rebuilding a totally different engine? And that black goo is still stuck in the back of my mind.

[bugzilla]

Bucky, I for one am watching the thread....Very interesting to this point. I also (but not to your extent) have talked with steve(email only) and he seems to be an very good asset to the RCVC.

Mark

[Bucky]

Hello Mark.

[Bucky]

I got a chance to price out some of the new engine parts I'll be needing. The figures don't look promising.

Case $375.00
Crank 200.00 Counter balanced
Rods 60.00 Between $100-40.00
Cam 60.00
Lifters 40.00
Piston/cylinders 130.00 german
fullflow oil pump
w/filter 90.00 a really good one
oil cooler 80.00 mine is full of bearing metal
Heads 130.00 new
x 2 130.00
Rod bearings 15.00
Main Bearings 35.00
Cam Bearings 20.00
gasket kit 15.00

Total 1380.00

So I've come up with a few alteratives. I had a chat with Mitchel from "The Shop" in sandpoint. I think he'll save me a few bucks anyway. I searched around more do to the huge cost. I'll keep searching to find the best deal without compromising too much on quility. Just thought I'd cover this as part of the rebuild. Its basically building a long block without anything to start with. A factory built engine(I guess form Mexico) Cost $1300.00 plus shipping. why not just get one of those? Because I wouldn't be building it. Any way I think I'll beable to bring the price down to well under $900.00.

[Troy Hobbs]

Sorry Bucky , I've been reading you updates too , just haven't had anything constructive to add , keep us posted on your progress . TROY

[Bucky]

Hey Troy, I figured you were watching.